Another group for review

Soviet · 10-24-2005, 09:48 AM

I have the opportunity to buy this group, but I'm not really sure about the writings in the book please could you give me your comments. I would really appreciate.

Bryan :)

For bigger pictures :
http://img.****************/albums/v4...w/File0896.jpg

http://img.****************/albums/v4...w/File0897.jpg

Soviet · 10-24-2005, 09:56 AM

ANd here is an other one from the same dealer that I consider. Note the duplicated mark. I don't know if they are all right as I never had a duplicated medal in my hand.

Bigger picture :
http://img.****************/albums/v4...al_crew/ot.jpg

Thanks for your help. :)

DutchBoy · 10-24-2005, 10:00 AM

For the first group, it seems that the second class Glory has been replated in gold. Also on the reverse of that 2nd class, the circle with the letters "CCCP" is off-centre and I don't think that's right. Would that have passed quality control, Experts please?

Soviet · 10-24-2005, 10:27 AM

You could be right. Look the clock tower on the 2nd class has much less wearing than the 3rd class. I don't know if this should be seen as a red alarm.

Dolf · 10-24-2005, 10:51 AM

Bryan,

Imho I do agree with Matt's opinion completely concerning the 1st Group.

As for the 2nd Group, also imho, everything seems ok for the pieces.
As for the Duplicate Bravery Medal, on PMD's Guide (pages 380 and 381) there are a few pics of these Duplicate Medals, either with the latin "D" on the center of one Medal, or with the Cyrillic "D" above the small S/N or no "D" at all, but only small S/Ns. None has the "D" (Latin or Cyrillic) below the S/N.
Anyway, on this pic you posted the Bravery Medal has the small S/N, which I think it's correct, althought there is one pic of a Duplicate on PMD's Guide with the latin "D" and large S/N :confused:

As for the Docs sorry I can't help but I really don't know much about these :o

My advice: you should wait for the top experts opinion, Alexei, Rusty...

All the best,

Dolf

Soviet · 10-24-2005, 10:55 AM

Somebody told me that on the second group, the OGPW was re-numbered. So I guess this is a made up group. :(

HuliganRS · 10-24-2005, 11:08 AM

Bryan,

To me it's interesting to note that the suspension on the 2nd Glory is old and heavily used/oxidized but the medal looks like fresh stock.

The secong groups OGPW was renamed and could be a duplicate.

Rusty.

Lapa · 10-24-2005, 11:22 AM

Bryan,

I am suspicious of the first group: first award is a medal for Military Merit that was supposedly issued with an order book for orders, not medals; next, I an not very keen on the suspension of said medal; next, the OG II is clearly replated, and I most certainly would like to see a good scan of the s/n area (Danny: there have been OG issued with circles on the back way out of alignment, see Mondvor site).
In short, IMHO the group is bad.

Marc

Soviet · 10-24-2005, 11:22 AM

Thanks Rusty & Marc! I guess I will pass on all his sets. Here are other groups he is selling. This guy is also selling fake Nevsky, fake Suvorov, fake Khmelnitsky, fake Order of Patriotic War 2 cl on suspention and many more rare pieces at the prices they were like 2-3 years ago.

Bigger picture of his fake groups :
http://img.****************/albums/v4...l_crew/2bz.jpg
http://img.****************/albums/v4..._crew/1lot.jpg
http://img.****************/albums/v4...l_crew/lot.jpg
http://img.****************/albums/v4...al_crew/bk.jpg
http://img.****************/albums/v4..._crew/mega.jpg

Dolf · 10-24-2005, 11:26 AM

Rusty,

Sorry for the silly question, but what does "renamed" mean on this context, for the OGPW? Or did you mean "(re)numbered" as mentioned by Bryan?

I guess they could have used a real good old and heavy suspension on this "gold" replated OG, just to make it more convincing, right?
Or could it be a 3rd Class transformed, with completely new gold plating?
And how to explain that off-center circle with the CCCP letters, as mentioned by Matt?

Btw, what do you think of the Docs?

Thanks buddy,

Dolf

10-24-2005, 10:00 AM	#3
DutchBoy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Age: 50 Posts: 153	For the first group, it seems that the second class Glory has been replated in gold. Also on the reverse of that 2nd class, the circle with the letters "CCCP" is off-centre and I don't think that's right. Would that have passed quality control, Experts please? __________________ Matthijs P.

10-24-2005, 10:27 AM	#4
Soviet Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montréal Age: 43 Posts: 356	You could be right. Look the clock tower on the 2nd class has much less wearing than the 3rd class. I don't know if this should be seen as a red alarm. __________________ На Берлин!

10-24-2005, 10:55 AM	#6
Soviet Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montréal Age: 43 Posts: 356	Somebody told me that on the second group, the OGPW was re-numbered. So I guess this is a made up group. :( __________________ На Берлин!

10-24-2005, 11:08 AM	#7
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Bryan, To me it's interesting to note that the suspension on the 2nd Glory is old and heavily used/oxidized but the medal looks like fresh stock. The secong groups OGPW was renamed and could be a duplicate. Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

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10-24-2005, 10:51 AM	#5
Dolf Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Age: 68 Posts: 572	Bryan, Imho I do agree with Matt's opinion completely concerning the 1st Group. As for the 2nd Group, also imho, everything seems ok for the pieces. As for the Duplicate Bravery Medal, on PMD's Guide (pages 380 and 381) there are a few pics of these Duplicate Medals, either with the latin "D" on the center of one Medal, or with the Cyrillic "D" above the small S/N or no "D" at all, but only small S/Ns. None has the "D" (Latin or Cyrillic) below the S/N. Anyway, on this pic you posted the Bravery Medal has the small S/N, which I think it's correct, althought there is one pic of a Duplicate on PMD's Guide with the latin "D" and large S/N :confused: As for the Docs sorry I can't help but I really don't know much about these :o My advice: you should wait for the top experts opinion, Alexei, Rusty... All the best, Dolf

10-24-2005, 11:22 AM	#8
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Bryan, I am suspicious of the first group: first award is a medal for Military Merit that was supposedly issued with an order book for orders, not medals; next, I an not very keen on the suspension of said medal; next, the OG II is clearly replated, and I most certainly would like to see a good scan of the s/n area (Danny: there have been OG issued with circles on the back way out of alignment, see Mondvor site). In short, IMHO the group is bad. Marc

10-24-2005, 11:26 AM	#10
Dolf Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Age: 68 Posts: 572	Rusty, Sorry for the silly question, but what does "renamed" mean on this context, for the OGPW? Or did you mean "(re)numbered" as mentioned by Bryan? I guess they could have used a real good old and heavy suspension on this "gold" replated OG, just to make it more convincing, right? Or could it be a 3rd Class transformed, with completely new gold plating? And how to explain that off-center circle with the CCCP letters, as mentioned by Matt? Btw, what do you think of the Docs? Thanks buddy, Dolf

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