Marshal's Star

***Tal Inbar*** · 03-10-2002, 04:25 PM

Hi

Do any of you know if there was a genuine marshal star on sale? Details, please...

Look at this replica:

***Tal Inbar*** · 03-10-2002, 04:26 PM

and the reverse:

***Art*** · 03-10-2002, 04:54 PM

Tal,

I've never heard of one that was sold on the open market, but for those who would like to know more, here is some information from one of my books:

The Marshals' Stars are symbols of rank and not decorations in the sense of orders and medals. They are worn affixed to the necktie when wearing the full dress and dress uniforms. There are two types of Marshals' Stars. One is conferred upon Marshals of the Soviet Union and Fleet Admirals of the Soviet Union. It is a five pointed gold star 44.5-mm in diameter with five large diamonds placed between the facet rays. The other star is conferred upon Marshals of branches of service (artillery, aviation, armored, engineers and communications) fleet admirals and army generals. It is 42-mm in diameter and minus the five large diamonds. The color of the ribbon associated with the Marshals' Star is as follows:

Marshal of the Soviet Union-Red
Fleet Admiral of the Soviet Union-Red
Marshal of Artillery-Gold
Marshal of Aviation-Light Blue
Marshal of Armored-Wine
Marshal of Engineers-Crimson
Marshal of Communications-Dark Blue
Fleet Admiral-Turquoise
Army General-Red

Eugene · 03-11-2002, 08:46 PM

It’s one of those “wearer’s copies”. Like “wearer’s copies” for HSU and HSL. Another lie to make the buck. I saw good ones made from pure gold for a few hundred.
I know such cases when Marshall stars were sold. Market price up to $100000(price of order of Victory in Belgrade. Ooops… Sorry…).

***Art*** · 03-11-2002, 09:54 PM

I can't believe guys on EBay are asking 75.00 for these "wearer's copies" of HSU..ridiculous..

Eugene do you know how close the image's Tal posted are in comparison to the actual award? I was wondering if the originals had any mint marks or any other markings on the reverse?

Art

Eugene · 03-11-2002, 10:04 PM

Observe is not even close. I believe, reverse of original is plain, no marks

CZ · 03-12-2002, 12:01 AM

Dear Mr. Ooops & Sorry,

again, the USD 100.000,- for such star might be possible, if you have a top stone in the middle and 5 top stones in the rays. But nobody will pay this price for the rarity. There were and are too many generals and marshalls hanging around. Please don't confuse the audience with fantastic prices, if they have nothing to do with the decoration, but only with the diamonds. Might be possible, that a special marshall got great stones.

Regards from Vienna

CZ · 03-12-2002, 02:26 AM

Dr. Herfurth writes in the 3rd edition of his Soviet Awards catalogue (Tal showed the photograph of the booklet) about 200 Marshall of SU Stars and about 370 Stars for the rest of the marshalls and for the army generals. But he couldn't quote average prices for both, because they are too seldom at the market.

Regards from Vienna

Eugene · 03-13-2002, 08:00 PM

It was only 44 marshals and fleet admiral of Soviet Union. Some of them like Blukher or Tukhachevsky never had a star. Almost all of those stars in state storage "GOHRAN".

CZ · 03-14-2002, 01:50 AM

I will ask Dr. Herfurth, why there should have been produced so many stars in advance and if the SU-marshalls and SU-fleet admirals might have got more than 1 for different uniforms and/or stars with different suspension (??) and from where he got the number 200. Generally he gets his figures from offical state sources in former SU/Russia.

To produce decorations in big numbers in advance was not so uncommon in the late Soviet Union. There where for example several times more "Personal Courage" and "Service to Motherland (3cl) & 2cl & 1cl" decorations manufactured, than actually awarded and they got at the market (at least some of them). I myself purchased a beautyful pair of 3cl & 2cl, fresh from the mint, very high serial numbers, original booklet and faked entry + nice price.

Another fact, which might also determine the market value, is, that the wonderful diamond-stars are no awards at all, but something in the quality like shoulderboards, just to show, that the wearer is SU-marshall. They didn't get the stars for a great and heroic operation in WWII, but due to the fact, that they were promoted to this very special rank. So for example the Ushakov 1cl or Nachimov 1cl from one of the great admirals might achieve higher prices at an auction (besides the value of the big diamonds in the marshall stars), than the SU-fleet admiral star of one of these admirals.

But I will check the figure 200 with Dr. Herfurth.

Regards from Vienna

03-10-2002, 04:54 PM	#3
*Art* Generalissimus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 3,019	Tal, I've never heard of one that was sold on the open market, but for those who would like to know more, here is some information from one of my books: The Marshals' Stars are symbols of rank and not decorations in the sense of orders and medals. They are worn affixed to the necktie when wearing the full dress and dress uniforms. There are two types of Marshals' Stars. One is conferred upon Marshals of the Soviet Union and Fleet Admirals of the Soviet Union. It is a five pointed gold star 44.5-mm in diameter with five large diamonds placed between the facet rays. The other star is conferred upon Marshals of branches of service (artillery, aviation, armored, engineers and communications) fleet admirals and army generals. It is 42-mm in diameter and minus the five large diamonds. The color of the ribbon associated with the Marshals' Star is as follows: Marshal of the Soviet Union-Red Fleet Admiral of the Soviet Union-Red Marshal of Artillery-Gold Marshal of Aviation-Light Blue Marshal of Armored-Wine Marshal of Engineers-Crimson Marshal of Communications-Dark Blue Fleet Admiral-Turquoise Army General-Red __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

03-11-2002, 09:54 PM	#5
*Art* Generalissimus Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 3,019	I can't believe guys on EBay are asking 75.00 for these "wearer's copies" of HSU..ridiculous.. Eugene do you know how close the image's Tal posted are in comparison to the actual award? I was wondering if the originals had any mint marks or any other markings on the reverse? Art __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

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03-11-2002, 08:46 PM	#4
Eugene Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NY,NY Posts: 378	It’s one of those “wearer’s copies”. Like “wearer’s copies” for HSU and HSL. Another lie to make the buck. I saw good ones made from pure gold for a few hundred. I know such cases when Marshall stars were sold. Market price up to $100000(price of order of Victory in Belgrade. Ooops… Sorry…).

03-11-2002, 10:04 PM	#6
Eugene Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NY,NY Posts: 378	Observe is not even close. I believe, reverse of original is plain, no marks

03-12-2002, 12:01 AM	#7
CZ Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 263	Dear Mr. Ooops & Sorry, again, the USD 100.000,- for such star might be possible, if you have a top stone in the middle and 5 top stones in the rays. But nobody will pay this price for the rarity. There were and are too many generals and marshalls hanging around. Please don't confuse the audience with fantastic prices, if they have nothing to do with the decoration, but only with the diamonds. Might be possible, that a special marshall got great stones. Regards from Vienna

03-12-2002, 02:26 AM	#8
CZ Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 263	Dr. Herfurth writes in the 3rd edition of his Soviet Awards catalogue (Tal showed the photograph of the booklet) about 200 Marshall of SU Stars and about 370 Stars for the rest of the marshalls and for the army generals. But he couldn't quote average prices for both, because they are too seldom at the market. Regards from Vienna

03-13-2002, 08:00 PM	#9
Eugene Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NY,NY Posts: 378	It was only 44 marshals and fleet admiral of Soviet Union. Some of them like Blukher or Tukhachevsky never had a star. Almost all of those stars in state storage "GOHRAN".

03-14-2002, 01:50 AM	#10
CZ Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 263	I will ask Dr. Herfurth, why there should have been produced so many stars in advance and if the SU-marshalls and SU-fleet admirals might have got more than 1 for different uniforms and/or stars with different suspension (??) and from where he got the number 200. Generally he gets his figures from offical state sources in former SU/Russia. To produce decorations in big numbers in advance was not so uncommon in the late Soviet Union. There where for example several times more "Personal Courage" and "Service to Motherland (3cl) & 2cl & 1cl" decorations manufactured, than actually awarded and they got at the market (at least some of them). I myself purchased a beautyful pair of 3cl & 2cl, fresh from the mint, very high serial numbers, original booklet and faked entry + nice price. Another fact, which might also determine the market value, is, that the wonderful diamond-stars are no awards at all, but something in the quality like shoulderboards, just to show, that the wearer is SU-marshall. They didn't get the stars for a great and heroic operation in WWII, but due to the fact, that they were promoted to this very special rank. So for example the Ushakov 1cl or Nachimov 1cl from one of the great admirals might achieve higher prices at an auction (besides the value of the big diamonds in the marshall stars), than the SU-fleet admiral star of one of these admirals. But I will check the figure 200 with Dr. Herfurth. Regards from Vienna

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