Dating Medals by serial #

[McLenin]

Hi all
I'm with Ed on this one. These are Red Banner numbers with dates direct from Personal Record Cards:

27357 17/01/42
82692 12/03/44
326692 15/11/50
365463 19/11/51
379629 27/12/51
383747 26/02/53
402918 11/03/53
454346 26/10/55
489908 30/12/56
528408 30/12/56

I think most Red Banners around 500,000 are officers' "Happy New Year 1957" awards.

[REDMAXIM2001]

Hi McLenin:

Here Red Max from another celtic, sea facing & rainy & stormy land (Galicia). Long live to old Scotland & old Galicia!!!

Thanks for info. But 3 questions:

A) Have you got all these Red Banners??? Wow!!!
B) The serial one serial # 27357 is she a T2/V1 Screwback?.
C) The serial one serial # 82692 is she a T2/V2 Screwback?.

Thanks Mac.

Red Max

[McLenin]

Hi REDMAXIM2001
> Here Red Max from another celtic, sea facing & rainy & stormy land

Actually I'm more Pict than Celt



In answer to your questions:

A) Have you got all these Red Banners??? Wow!!!

Unfortunately no. I haven't got the 2 5-digit ones mentioned. So I can't answer the rest of your questions

But I have groups which are missing these two awards, so they are on the database under 'wanted'.
The 27357 award was awarded to someone who ended up as Deputy Minister of Communications for the Ukraine.
I do have most of the others mentioned I think. Trouble remembering which ones off the top of my head.
bye
McL

[Ed Maier]

Christian,

Your new information confirms what I said about the earlier serial number range on the Red Banner.
The Military Merit Medal was issued for 10 Years Long Service in 1944-45. The Red Star was for 15 Years Long Service issued in 1950 and the Red Banner is for 20 years in 1955-56. This would place him entering the service in 1934, give or take a year and that would correcpond with his rank and position during the war.

He should also have a 30 and 40 Years of the Red Army and Navy medal in the group as he was still in the service when they were issued and only active duty military personnel received those medals. The 50 Years and later were issued to all veterans as well as active duty personnel.

If he does not have an Order of Lenin issued in 1960-61 for 20 Years service, he would have been out of the service before that time.

The OGPW 2nd Class Type 3, doesn't really signify anyhting. Despite regulations about who recieved a 1st and 2nd Class, they seem to have been given indescriminatly. I have multiple groups with high level awards for combat where the person has a Type 3 OGPW 2nd, not the 1st Class. I also have a Red Star group where the guy received a OGPW 1st Class, type 3.

I can research the group for you. The Navy archives are strange so I do not know how long it will take.

I hope that this helps,
Ed

[Ed Maier]

Eugene,

I do not understand your post. What do you mean that you have these Red Banners with the issue date of 1967? Do you have the research for these awards? If so, could you send me a scan of the award card? I would love to see this.

Thanks,
Ed

[CZ]

Ed,

it is really great, that you can do some research. I will try to contact the might be grandson Alex in the USA.

Kandybin got no Lenin, but of course 30, 40, not 50 and 60 years Red Army, Japan, 20, 30, 40, 50 years anniversary, Lenins-birthday (civil), 1977 the military veteran medal and 1948 the liberation of Korea medal.

From the 70s on the documents are issued in Riga, Latvia.

I like the submariner group, because it's Navy, submarine, comes with the academy badge and has also the rare and exotic Korea medal, last but not least it is from an authentic Captain 1st Rank.

I have no photos from Kandybin in the booklets - always stamped.

I have another - incomplete (I have only the 2 Red Banners) - "Japan group", airforce, major in 1946, who got Lenin:

Red Banner, #286944
Red Banner #2, #19404 (20 years)
missing:
Lenin, #326834 (25 years)
Red Star, #1778974 (15 years)
Red Star, #3573222 (30 years ?!?)
Combat Service, #1994020 (10 years)
also Japan medal,.....

On the photo in the booklet you see 1946 major Baranovsky with a Red Banner, Red Star, Combat Service and Victory over Japan.

So the captain only really earned the Red Star and the airforce major the Red Banner, but it was more difficult to achieve a Red Star in an SU-submarine during WW II, than to get a Red Banner in the airforce.

Regards from Vienna

[McLenin]

Hi Guys
I made a mistake
and thought I had better come clean before being found out and sent to the Gulag
I checked up and...

27357 17/01/42
This is actually a Red Star

82692 12/03/44
don't know where I got this from. Might have read it somewhere? I'll have another look.

However all the rest of the RB numbers I posted are OK.
phew!!
McL

[Keith]

Hello everyone,

Reading all of these numbers makes me think that this group could compile a very useful database to track the estimated dates of issue for the numbered awards. I have only one set of red banner and red star in the same group, and the order book to go with it. The date in the book is October 25, 1949, and the first order is the red star # 2896343, which appears to be consistent with the others. The red banner is not dated in the book, but the number #439567, is very close to Ed's issued November 5, 1954. As this is almost exactly five years later, is it a safe assumption that these orders were awarded for long service? I had originally thought this might be a fake entry made later by the dealer, but it seems unlikely that the dates would be so precise.

Keith

[Ed Maier]

Keith,

Your assumptions seem correct to me. This sounds like a long service group to me.

I am currently (my fingers are killing me) typing up a spread sheet with the number, date, unti, person information. It will take a long time to complete, but I've spent the last several days on it and there are some interesting patterns already. I'll keep people posted if I find anything.

Take care,
Ed

[Doug]

Ed,

Your spreadsheet sounds interesting. Tell us the fields and I'll work on a similar sheet weekend. Maybe a couple of us can merge our data with yours to get a bigger sample and thus possibly ID or confirm some trends. Sounds like fun.

Doug