Ebay jokes

[otlichnik]

I was going to make a joke about cleaning it with salicylic acid, but that led me to a serious question...

What eats away at enamel and what can it stand up to??

Anyone know??

Shawn

[Lapa]

Real glass enamel will resist a lot of aggressions, just like regular glass. The one thing that it WILL NOT like at all (and we can all attest to that ....) is hits of any kind. It simply breaks, and you're left with your eyes to cry with.

Regarding the way to dissolve glass enamel, yes, some substances work perfectly, but I am not too convinced that we should necessarily publicize way to help fakers further refine their art (if we can call it that, of course). You can also refer to the discussion we had a while back regarding the manufacturing process of enameled orders and medals: http://soviet-awards.addr.com/forum/...=&threadid=370 .

Season's greetings to all,

Marc

[otlichnik]

Marc,

I read the thread and was surprised to see my own words. I am flattered that Tal had quoted my site (and as the usual paragon of virtue he is he included the copyright notice!).

I have just commented on that thread about my errors on hot enamel for small items like orders. Thanks for the info. I will update my site on it someday.

My concerns about causing enamel damage are 1) what should we use and what should we avoid for cleaning enamel - both chemicals and abrasives, and 2) can we stablize cracked enamel with anything (clear nail polish laquer seems to be the man option).

Also, any idea why some items, for instance the M1940 Distinguished NKVD badge, have consistantly poor enamel?? The red background enamel is cracked on 99% of these items. I have heard rumours of their being gold dust in the mixture. I assume that this is just a myth - but was it bad formula or bad process and why not other early WWII era orders??

Shawn

[Tal Inbar]

can you geuss what is :

Russian "Workers Red Flag 2nd"Order"CCCP?

Well, here it is:

[Lapa]

Shawn,

When it comes to caring for your enamel (interesting expression ), I'd say that you should:
1) avoid all shocks
2) treat it the way you would your glasses

Basically, real glass enamel is quite sturdy. It will reasonably resist quite well most types of chemical and mechanical aggressions (apart, sorry if I seem to insist, shocks).

Glass can be polished, but it is quite an involved process, and is rarely done. Some examples of ename polishing: the white-enamelled round part on the Order for Service in the Military Forces, the white-enamelled part on the Order of Kutuzov 2nd class. In this case, the enamel is packed to a level higher than the intended level, fused, then polished down to the required level after cooling down.

Therefore, it is possible to scratch glass enamel if you use substance of equal or higher hardness than the enamel itself. For instance, be careful of the type of cloth you use for polish your orders. Depending on their composition, they may, with repeated use, scratch the enamel surface at a microscopic level, which would show by a loss of shine.

Regarding "stabilizing" the enamel, there is not much you can do that I know of, although we have to consider diffferent cases.
1) In the case of an internal crack (no loss of enamel), the one thing I can think of would be to try to re-fuse the enamel, although that may in turn create some new problems (overbaking of the enamel, orange peel appearance, etc); I'd probably advise to leave it as it is as the result may end-up worse than the original problem.
2) If the enamel is chipped, the main concern is to prevent further damage as the remaining enamel becomes very brittle because of the loss of pressure on one of the sides. My opinion (and I insist that it is only MY opinion) as to the best way to protect the remaining enamel would be to use some transparent polymer resin to fill the gap, extending it slightly above the edge of the remaining enamel. The result will clearly show a lack of a piece of the original enamel (indicating that the medal was damaged at some point), but should protect it from further damage in this area. Another substance that can come to mind as you mentioned is clear nail polish. In either case, you must be careful of the possible chemical reaction of whatever substance you use with the metal of the medal.

When it comes to poor quality enamel, there can be so many possible reasons that I honnestly could not tell. I can suggest a few possibilities, but it would not surprize me to learn that the actual reason is something totally different. So, in no special order:
. The poor quality of the enamel powder used. Without going into great detail, glass enamel is actually ground glass pebbles. As you know, there are different qualities of glass, from very cheap glass to the finest crystal, the difference is their chemical composition. It can be that the batch of enamel powder used was of a lower quality than that usually used.
. The presence of impurities in the enamel.
. The metal used for support. Some metals readily take to enamelling, some others present more of a problem.
. The proper choice of enamel/metal combination. You may have to use enamel powders of slightly different compositions on different metals to obtain the same result (in other terms, to obtain exactly the same enamel color on 2 different metals, you may have to use 2 enamel powders with different chemical compositions).
. The physical characteristics of the metal support: weight, thickness, etc, which will impact on the cooling time of the piece. If a piece cools off too fast, there will be enormous internal tensions inside the enamel which may result in microscopic cracks (micro-fissures), which later on can evolve into internal cracks that you can see.
. The temperature changes the piece is exposed to. If the enamel has micro-fissures, the repeated expansion (heat) compression (cold) will lengthen these micro-fissures and someday result in an internal crack.

So, as you can see, these are just a few of the simple and immediate possibilities that could be the reason for "bad enamel".

In my opinion and generally speaking, internal cracks are probably the result of the combination of high internal tensions in the enamel with slight shocks (not strong enough to break the enamel) like when medals clank together. After a while of that happening (like a veteran wearing his awards many times), the micro-fissures in the enamel progressively broaden and finally one day give out, in a similar way ice or sheet glass would behave (think of cracks in windshields, for example).

Hope this helps,

Marc

[yolkin]

he he he

currently on "sale"

Eric

[Bryan]

Must be quite rare. I have never seen this before

Bryan

[HuliganRS]

How about this:

I hear this is a rare ribbon variation!

[vikingraider1]

I have a sneeky feeling they it might not be genuine!

[yolkin]

OH JEEZ!